The talk in Seattle for the last few days has focused on the
murders at a party in the Capitol Hill neighborhood of Melissa Moore, 14; Suzanne Thorne, 15; Jeremy Martin, 26, Jason Travers, 32; Justin Schwartz, 22; and Christopher Williamson, 21. According to the Seattle Police, the killer, Kyle Huff, told people at the party "there's plenty for everyone."
Huff was described by partygoers as moody, but courteous. No one recalls any angry or harsh words from Huff during the party, Seattle Deputy Police Chief Clark Kimerer told reporters. A police officer in the neighborhood heard the shots and was there almost immediately. When the cop confronted Huff, the shooter shot himself and died.
"There was nothing to suggest the monster he became," Clark Kimerer said. Everyone who knew Huff seems to be shocked, and no one had any clue, least of all his twin brother/roommate.
It's shocking, depressing, and numbing. This one hit close to home, but every time something like this happens, wherever it happens, I begin thinking we should just end the whole gun thing for good.
I keep thinking we'll come back to our senses. Sometimes I'm sure we've finally achieved The Last Straw. Up front on this, I have had a lot of fun shooting guns. The last time I actually held one, though, was New Year's Eve 1982, when Luke Celt handed me his 12 gauge shotgun at midnight, and told me to aim straight-up, 180 degrees, and fire. It was cool. I loved going out to the gravel pit to fire friend's rifles. And shooting .22s in the Boy Scouts, at Camps Omache and Brinkley.
I only remember shooting a BB gun with my Dad...nothing stronger. He was far more a fisherman than a rifleman. I do remember eating a fair amount of venision as a child, but I don't know if my dad bagged it or not. I think he did get roped into hunting now and then, but the BB gun was the only firearm in the house.
Like a bad dream, the National Rifle Association returns periodically (and especially at times like this), to remind us that "guns don't kill; people do." After assassinations, after Columbine, after the shootings at three Denny's last week, after every single senseless, insane killing, and as they inevitably will after the Seattle killings this weekend, the NRA will dissemble, rationalize, backpedal and flat out lie. Unrepentant despite the thousands of lesser known gun outrages in America, the NRA will actually try to tell us that shootings like this are why we need to have guns. And that a well-armed party would have nipped it in the bud.
The second amendment probably outlived its usefulness sometime around 1901. Let's get rid of it. Yeah, "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Until we figure out the people part, let's declare a state of emergency, and fast-track the repeal of the second amendment to the constitution.
In an earlier post I wrote on gun control, a lot of the comments focused on the strange idea that guns might have prevented a tragedy like this:
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Both sick biscuits were sick on hearing the trash these people produce. Both got close enough to have killed the person with a knife or baseball bat... The gun is irrelevant.
Ralph (not a member of the NRA) - but one who fears liberals more than guns.
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I'm pretty sure you have never listened to Damageplan, and, OK, I'll respect your right to think the Beatles produced trash. Yeah, you're not in the NRA.
You're saying that these guys could have done the same damage with a knife or baseball bat? Possibly. I'm not sure the guy could have killed five people with a knife. Isn't that being a little disingenuous? At least Abbott would have possibly had a fighting chance. He might have run. Or ducked.
"The gun is irrelevant." For a guy who has called me "stupid" elsewhere, you don't seem all that swift yourself. But you write OK for a mouth-breather.
By Jack Brummet, at
December 09, 2004 6:26 PM
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I was very saddened by this news - having been a fan of Dime - but I tell ya - it never crossed my mind or a SECOND that guns were to be blamed - I'm not in the NRA but can see where if more people packed guns this kind of thing would be a lot less likely to happen. - An armed society is a polite society.
I'm sure you don't see it that way - it's interesting to read an opposing view though - you write well.
Have a great weekend.
By Monkey, at December 09, 2004 9:54 PM
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There are people who claim the "music" (sorry, but I find most of the current noise not really music, but I also recognize that is an opinion, not one I would force on others) played by today's bands causes violence. Should, therefore, that so-called "music" be banned? There are smarter people who say "guns cause crime just as flies cause garbage." In truth, owning a gun is the same human right as owning, say, a DVD. A free human being has the right to OWN anything he has honestly acquired, whether it's a gun or a recording (even one most of us find distasteful) or a Bible or a plant. If one insists on laws controlling behavior, then the only rational and moral law is one against acts that initiate force or fraud; that is, one can properly advocate laws against killing or stealing or driving under the influence ... but NOT against ownership of anything honestly acquired.
By Michael Morrison, at December 09, 2004 10:15 PM
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Hi Monkey - The previous commentator pointed out a baseball bat could have done as much damage. But to kill four people would have required much more energy, and time, than standing and pulling the trigger. So, in a way, I agree with you AND the NRA..."guns don't kill, people kill." But people kill with guns. Israel has a handgun murder rate one sixth of ours, even though they are heavily armed. Switzerland, where virtually everyone owns a gun has about one third the murders we do. Most murders are crimes of passion, and the people who carry them out are not deterred by the consequences (like the killer last night, or a terrorist in Israel). I'd just like to hamstring them a little. /jack
By Jack Brummet, at December 09, 2004 10:21 PM
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Jack:
True, true - it'd be some work to kill 4 people with a bat - but it could be done. Interesting facts you point out about Israel & Switzerland - it's amazing how a country can be so well behaved with so many guns - I have no answer to that - it's a mystery I guess. I guess we Americans are just a little more crazy or something - but I'd not have it any other way - crazy or not, I love our country even if we waste each other ever now and again. But I still feel SAFER knowing that so many of my fellow Americans are packing - because I still feel there's more GOOD people in the world than bad - and I want good people to have and carry guns freely - if nothing else so they can waste away idiots like the guy last night, or the clown that comes into McDonald's blowing away innocent people. I will always feel safer with guns all around me - even though that sounds warped probably to you and others I feel they're a GOOD tool in the right hands. (Like in the hands of the cop at that concert who probably saved a lot of lives). Off to beddy-by-land. Good night.
By Monkey, at December 09, 2004 10:50 PM
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Well, I guess we agree to disagree. For me it is about proportion. . .
People with bats or knives don't do a lot of collateral damage. Someone with a semi-automatic weapon and a pocketful of clips could kill dozens of people. This guy killed at least four before he even reloaded.
I didn't look it up, but I know there are statistics about how many crimes are actually thwarted by people carrying guns. The last I heard, I believe was that far far more people are killed than saved by guns.
By Jack Brummet, at December 10, 2004 10:01 AM
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Guns make us safer Jack, the same way having nuclear missiles kept the Russians away and you'll probably never believe that. You talked about the low rates of killings in Switzerland and Israel, and you were right.
By Anonymous, at December 10, 2004 1:42 PM
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---o0o---
Peter Smith, a freelance photographer, has been fired from his gig with a Boston Catholic newspaper because he released a picture of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia making a controversial gesture (that Scalia says is a Sicilian hand gesture, but many of us know as the middle finger in disguise--"read between the lines!"
All This Is That has learned from senior administration officials that Vice-President Cheney is under treatment and has been placed on a clandestine suicide watch following new revelations about his office's complicity in the Valerie Plame spy case.
Dr. Edwin Argent, a highly-respected psychiatrist, has in recent years worked exclusively with well-heeled and famous clients. Less than a year ago, the Justice Department quashed an investigation into numerous drug violations against Argent. In December, 2005, he was secretly moved into the West Wing, where he set up a discreet clinic.
The talk in Seattle for the last few days has focused on the murders at a party in the Capitol Hill neighborhood of Melissa Moore, 14; Suzanne Thorne, 15; Jeremy Martin, 26, Jason Travers, 32; Justin Schwartz, 22; and Christopher Williamson, 21. According to the Seattle Police, the killer, Kyle Huff, told people at the party "there's plenty for everyone."
